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  • Conjugation: Possessive Pronouns

     Beatriz updated 1 week, 2 days ago 3 Members · 9 Posts
  • Beatriz

    Member
    October 10, 2020 at 10:46 am

    !هلا

    I watched a video about possessive pronouns and noticed that when the teacher conjugated the word جزمة (Gazma), he did it like this: “Gazmiti”. I understand why he added the ‘T’, but I can’t understand why he added the ‘I’ after the ‘M’. Isn’t it supposed to be “Gazmti”?

  • Nasrani

    Member
    October 10, 2020 at 6:45 pm

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    !السلام لكم

    When the possessive pronoun was added, was the vowel preceding “t” a short vowel kesra جَزِمِتي or a yaa‘? The kesra may have either been a mistake or for ease of pronunciation (since MSA does not allow consonant clusters as readily as English does), but I am not sure why a long vowel would have been added…

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    • Beatriz

      Member
      October 11, 2020 at 4:14 pm

      Thank you for your reply, Nasrani!

      I didn’t know about this consonant clustering rule. The “I” was indeed a short kasra vowel.

      • Nasrani

        Member
        October 12, 2020 at 6:40 am

        Happy to help!

  • Matthew 

    Member
    October 11, 2020 at 7:50 am

    There’s a rule in Egyptian Arabic that three consonant sounds cannot appear in a cluster. A vowel has to separate them (for ease of pronunciation, as Narani said). Also, the ending ـة -a becomes ـِة -it: gazma → gazmíti It’s a short kasra sound. You also see this in an idaafa construction: شنْطِةْ إيد shanTit 2iid (handbag). BUT the kasra is omitted when the result is NOT three adjacent consonants. In the case of gazmit-, we have zm and t, so it’s obligatory, but in صورة Suura (picture), we just have r, so → صورْتي Surti. A double consonant counts as two consonants, so جِدّة gidda (grandmother) → giddíti

    • Nasrani

      Member
      October 11, 2020 at 3:30 pm

      This rule about consonant clusters… it is violated (as are so many other rules) in English (such as in the word “strengths”), but common in other languages besides Arabic. I have heard heritage speakers of Spanish say things like “istreet” (instead of “street”), almost adding a إ to the beginning of the word. I have also heard that one way of ascertaining whether someone is from Beirut is to listen to how they say “منيح”… allegedly people from Beirut add a إ in front of the word, while those from, say, Syria do not. (I do not know how true this is, but it is something I have heard.)

      I wonder how many other languages have this (or a similar) rule?

    • Beatriz

      Member
      October 11, 2020 at 4:07 pm

      Thank you very much for the explanation, Matthew!

      I tried to practice with some other words and got a little confused with the word شوكة. It ends in one consonant (ك), right? Or should I untie the ة first so it becomes ت, counting as the second consonant?

      The proper conjugation for “your(m) fork” would be “Shookitak”, or “Shooktak”?

      • Matthew 

        Member
        October 11, 2020 at 4:29 pm

        Right, so you have to take it in steps:

        1. shooka (fork)

        2. + -ak (your) → shookitak

        3. The kasra is “unprotected”; that is, it is not stressed and if you remove it, you don’t have three consonants adjacent, just k and t, so → shuktak

        By the way, notice that a long vowel cannot be followed by two consonants in Egyptian Arabic (another rule!), so long oo (or ō, similar to English bOAt) because a short u (damma)

        • Beatriz

          Member
          October 12, 2020 at 1:06 pm

          Shukran, Matthew (:

          Now I understand it!

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