MemberOctober 10, 2020 at 10:46 am
I watched a video about possessive pronouns and noticed that when the teacher conjugated the word جزمة (Gazma), he did it like this: “Gazmiti”. I understand why he added the ‘T’, but I can’t understand why he added the ‘I’ after the ‘M’. Isn’t it supposed to be “Gazmti”?
MemberOctober 10, 2020 at 6:45 pm
When the possessive pronoun was added, was the vowel preceding “t” a short vowel kesra جَزِمِتي or a yaa‘? The kesra may have either been a mistake or for ease of pronunciation (since MSA does not allow consonant clusters as readily as English does), but I am not sure why a long vowel would have been added…
MemberOctober 11, 2020 at 7:50 am
There’s a rule in Egyptian Arabic that three consonant sounds cannot appear in a cluster. A vowel has to separate them (for ease of pronunciation, as Narani said). Also, the ending ـة -a becomes ـِة -it: gazma → gazmíti It’s a short kasra sound. You also see this in an idaafa construction: شنْطِةْ إيد shanTit 2iid (handbag). BUT the kasra is omitted when the result is NOT three adjacent consonants. In the case of gazmit-, we have zm and t, so it’s obligatory, but in صورة Suura (picture), we just have r, so → صورْتي Surti. A double consonant counts as two consonants, so جِدّة gidda (grandmother) → giddíti
MemberOctober 11, 2020 at 3:30 pm
This rule about consonant clusters… it is violated (as are so many other rules) in English (such as in the word “strengths”), but common in other languages besides Arabic. I have heard heritage speakers of Spanish say things like “istreet” (instead of “street”), almost adding a إ to the beginning of the word. I have also heard that one way of ascertaining whether someone is from Beirut is to listen to how they say “منيح”… allegedly people from Beirut add a إ in front of the word, while those from, say, Syria do not. (I do not know how true this is, but it is something I have heard.)
I wonder how many other languages have this (or a similar) rule?
MemberOctober 11, 2020 at 4:07 pm
Thank you very much for the explanation, Matthew!
I tried to practice with some other words and got a little confused with the word شوكة. It ends in one consonant (ك), right? Or should I untie the ة first so it becomes ت, counting as the second consonant?
The proper conjugation for “your(m) fork” would be “Shookitak”, or “Shooktak”?
MemberOctober 11, 2020 at 4:29 pm
Right, so you have to take it in steps:
1. shooka (fork)
2. + -ak (your) → shookitak
3. The kasra is “unprotected”; that is, it is not stressed and if you remove it, you don’t have three consonants adjacent, just k and t, so → shuktak
By the way, notice that a long vowel cannot be followed by two consonants in Egyptian Arabic (another rule!), so long oo (or ō, similar to English bOAt) because a short u (damma)
MemberOctober 12, 2020 at 1:06 pm
Shukran, Matthew (:
Now I understand it!
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